Marlin:
Caryl Matrisciana good to have you back.

Caryl:
Thank you Marlin. Thank you so much. It is good to be with you again, Penna too.

Marlin:
You know Caryl, one thing I want to talk with you about before we get into some of the other subjects. We played some of the sound track and talked about the Ganges River, but those scenes of the teaming thousands of people gathered at the Ganges River washing and so on, did you guys actually film that yourselves?

Caryl:
Pat and I filmed everything that you see in Gods of the New Age. Oh, the stories behind the scenes, the outs that went out onto the floor, were almost more amazing than what we put into the film. That film footage is just incredible, isn't it? Just the teaming millions and millions and millions of Indians that come to the Khumbha Mela, which is a religious festival that happens once every fourteen years when certain planets and stars and all the astrological energies are fixed in the right places. These people come together for a vortex of energy, a kind of spiritual zap, and walk hundreds of thousands of miles, millions of people. There are hundreds of thousands of priests and godmen and enlightened men and camps. I don't know how many acres, but people are camping together for a month. The actual nature festival, if you will, takes about ten days, which is the high, sort of climax of the festival. There is all the leading up to it for ten days, then leading down after. There are human stampedes, in fact, seven years before we filmed, where they have a sort of half, the min Khumbha Mela, Stanley Kubrick brought a host of filmmakers and one or two of his crew got stampeded to death. There are deaths.

Marlin:
Why do they come?

Caryl:
Well basically to dip into the river Ganges, which is considered Mother Goddess. The map of India is Mother Goddess herself. The river is scene on one level as the giver of life because she supplies water. On the other level, she is the supplier of life spiritually. So, the concept from physical and spiritual is entwined in Hindu religious thinking. In fact, the Hindu religion is so complex that you really can't define it, because it is cultures, it's folklore, it's superstition, it is a spiritual concept of life itself, so the environment is holy. The cow is holy, because the cow is the supplier of milk, which of course is the energy of food. The cow also comes back as a reincarnation of somebody, of an enlightened man. I remember as a child, going to school, walking along the sidewalk, and amazed always because I saw this one particular cow tethered to the sidewalk. The cow had a limb growing out of its neck, which was a little hoofed leg. So it was actually a distortion, and the cow had garlands of flowers around its neck and was adored like a god. People would come, and as I was going to school I remember thinking, I would see these poor Indian people giving a bowl of rice, or a little mixture of milk and sugar to the cow, and all around it were these bowls of food. They would put garlands around her neck and this was a god. Of course money was given to the owner. So, any perversion in a state is edified as god consciousness. Just like the time that I remember that I was attacked by an insane person. I was just a young thing and it was a terrifying experience. This man that had matted hair with cow dung in his hair, broken bad teeth, stunk terribly, naked. Thousands are walking along the sidewalks in the city of Calcutta where I was born and raised, and this man just came up and grunted like an animal and jumped over me with incredible strength and started attacking me, much like an animal would attack another animal in heat. I was terrified, and it took my companions to kick this person to bring some kind of reaction, much like when you kick an animal to get him away. I remember people came up to me afterwards and touched me. I was terrified. I was a little girl terrified and they touched me, trying to touch my holiness, because I had been just touched by a holy man, yet he……

Marlin:
Oh my word.

Caryl:
…..he was insane.

Marlin:
But he was considered a holy man?

Caryl:
Tantamount, because insanity is considered tantamount to holiness.

Marlin:
Alright, okay, explain to me then how the roots of that belief system comes from the streets of India like that, and finds its way into a class for AT&T, Ford Motor Company, and the schools, and the churches, and it is accepted as a way for improvement.

Caryl:
Well Marlin, I think the thing to do is that one has got to understand the spiritual warfare that is going on in the hidden world that we don't see. The unseen world. We are told that we don't wrestle against flesh and blood, but against powers and principalities. There is a real war going on. Now, Satan is not a creator, he is a counterfeiter of what has already been created. This type of faith that we are seeing going into AT&T and IBM and corporate America and into the medicine world and all this in classes in stress management teaching is part of the idea of the Biblical concept of faith, where we give up thinking in a human sense and rest on a belief system unseen. But, our system, the Biblical concept is that God is a person and one has belief, although one doesn't see Him, but God himself came down to be seen, and we have an example in Christ. In Hinduism it is giving up your mind to be insane, which is quite different to walking in faith, but it seems very close, it is a counterfeit.

Marlin:
But you are not going to convince a teacher fresh out of college or maybe a few years longer than that, which is leading her little class to empty their minds and meditate and relax to get them settled down.

Caryl:
Right, but there you go.

Marlin:
What is the leap from their to the schoolroom scene?

Caryl:
Emptying your mind, emptying your mind, and it being done in a sort of movement of giving up your thinking, whereas remember the first commandment tells us that we have to love the Lord our God with all our mind. So within Biblical thinking we are not to give up our mind. Within occult thinking you have to give up your mind in order for spirit beings to come into it, to be able to use your body to give you a higher, what they call, human potential which is within you.

Marlin:
Caryl Matrisciana with us ladies and gentleman. You need to listen to the program today, take it very seriously. I want to recommend that you get a copy of Gods of the New Age. It is a very, very powerful movie, 103 minutes in full color. Let me read you a little bit on the back here, it says, "With explosive facts it explains why 60 million Americans have been led to Eastern mysticism's embrace that smothers, exchanging the certain hope of salvation for the hopeless cycle of reincarnation. The Gods of the New Age reveals why thousands of churchgoers have begun to believe the lies first told by the serpent in the Garden of Eden. Why yoga, meditation, psychological therapy, and self-help are turning millions to a pagan world view, and how the West is being intentionally evangelized by Eastern mystics and New Age visionaries." Some of you are involved in some New Age activities, you may not even be aware of it. Maybe you have taken a yoga class, but it's just for the exercise. We are going to be asking Caryl Matrisciana about that, you will want to find out what she has got to say. To get a copy of the video through Point of View you can order it by calling 1-800-347-5151. 1-800-347-5151. We do suggest a minimum gift of $24.95. Ask for the video Gods of the New Age. The phone number again 1-800-347-5151. Stay with us we'll be right back.

Marlin:
Welcome back ladies and gentleman. Caryl Matrisciana with us and we're talking about the New Age. I want to go back to a cut in the video The Gods of the New Age. This is just one of those videos that you have to have in your home, you have to view it, show it to your children, show it to your friends, and it will help to get a handle on what is going on in some of the churches and the schools all across America, in businesses, in society, in the movies, in television. This nation is absolutely saturated with New Age thought. I am going to play this cut, then we are going to come back and talk to Caryl. I think there is something in here about yoga. Let's hear what we've got.

(Playing film)

Penna:
Caryl Matrisciana is with us, she is the voice that you hear on that video. This disturbs me so much Caryl, because I see in our society right now, people taking this very lightly. I mean, they are talking here about a serpent that they see at the base of the spine in the human body. It is really Satan doing these exercises and this yoga to unleash those powers. Yet, you have Y.M.C.A.s all over the country, health clubs, power yoga classes, even Christian doctors recommending yoga to get rid of stress and to build strength. I mean which is it? Can you have one without the other, or is yoga just innately a spiritual discipline?

Caryl:
Well within Hinduism yoga is considered a prayer. It is a prayer of yoking one's self with that universal life that is believed to be everywhere, that we are one with the life. So actually you have got to come inside of yourself, focus inside, and get in tune with your enlightened person, your god spot, your human potential, what is in you, within humanism. They say that it is the power that you have within. For instance, in the entertainment world it is the Star Wars force, the force be with you, it is the internal force that you can have. So the entertainment industry is pushing this force which is in you. Now that is contradictory to what Jeremiah 17 says, that there is no good thing within us, we are deceptively wicked. So to look within ourselves for what is good, it is futile. We have to look outside of time and space to the God that created the universe, that is where we get our strength. So this is a counterfeit of the power within you, the breath within you. As Johanna Michaelsen mentioned in that film, that Prana yoga is the breath inside of you that gives you power. Well you go back to Genesis where God breathed his Holy Spirit into us for life. Now, what yoga is trying to do is to tell us to go back to that place of voidness before God breathed, to in a sense become dead.

Marlin:
You mean all of this is in the exercises?

Caryl:
Yes, because you are told to give up your mind. In yoga you are told to relax, think of nothing, blank your mind. That is in complete contradiction to what the first commandment says, which is to think about the Lord your God with all your mind. So what this is doing, in a sense, is putting you into neutral. The moment that we become, are put into neutral, we open up doorways for the occult. Now an interesting thing is that this is being taught in schools, it is not only in all the things that you mention, Penna, with medicine and stress management and corporate themes of being able to work harder and bring in better business. But what I find so frightening is the fact that this is being taught in schools through, for instance, our little Harry Potter, which has become required reading to young, young children. The symbol, the motto of Harry Potter's school, the Latin translation of that is, "Never wake a sleeping dragon or serpent." So here we have this occult school of Harry Potter's, a thousand-year-old school where all the students are taught to awake that power within them, their inner potential, to concentrate, which is now being changed from this particular film The Gods of the New Age. What we did was we went back to the roots of where Eastern mysticism comes from, but it is so integrated into our society today, that our young children are being taught it in different ways, to harness that potential within you, and that we can do all things, and our kids can do all things. This is part of the indoctrination of the global child.

Penna:
So, you have a well-meaning teacher who thinks she is going to harness the potential inside the student and probably relax them, teaching them basically these Hindu or Eastern techniques that, in some cases, could actually cause them great harm.

Caryl:
In some cases they do, as we showed in that film. By the way, I recommend people to buy this film from Marlin. It is such an incredible offer, because I have had so many letters from people who say that they gave that film to a friend of theirs that was in the New Age, or was a Wiccan, or somebody that was dabbling with the occult, and their lives got changed. The letters I get just saying thank you for clarifying it and letting us see the roots of Eastern mysticism and what's happening. This is a transformation, this is changing a whole generation from Judeo-Christian traditional values to Eastern mystical values. Just the concept of yoga was designed within Orthodox Hinduism, the oldest generation after they had given birth, after they had raised families, after they had been involved in business. The grandfather would go into an Ashram, or a community, to learn from the god man how to die to themselves through yoga. To die to themselves, to die to their emotions, to die to their feelings, in preparation for reincarnation. Now this very same technique used to prepare the elderly for reincarnation, to get on to their next life cycle, is now being taught to the young.

Marlin:
That is incredible. Let me take a break. When we get back we'll take phone calls. If you have a question for Caryl here is the number 1-800-351-1212. Stay with us, your phone calls straight ahead.

Marlin:
We're back. Caryl Matrisciana with us. The phone number 1-800-351-1212. Give us a ring. Caryl, you know, I have talked about secular humanism, I've talked about the changes in the schools, moral relativism, and all of this. Is all of this part of the continuum, the New Age movement and all of that?

Caryl:
Marlin, you are always wonderful the way that you know that these things are all part of the conditioning process of transformation. It's in a transformation. It's changing us to take on the whole new world religion, which is tolerant to all religions as equal. Not tolerant to all religions, as your entitled to your opinion and I am entitled to mine, tolerant as equal. Multiculturalism says that they are all the same, so therefore you have the Pope getting together an Assisi of all the world's leaders, hundreds of world leaders, and they are all praying supposedly to the same god. The Pope is endorsing that kind of ecumenical religious worship, saying also to go to India and look at the way India is viewing mankind, how they view man, we should be learning from that. Well, I grew up in India and man is not considered a value and worth when you give a cow food and milk and drink it's urine as part of your spiritual cycle upwards in your evolutionary process. Yet people are starving. You don't have a high view or moral obligation. In fact, in our film The Gods of the New Age that you are offering, which I highly recommend people to purchase, a very well-known Indian author in there mentions that when he was in college in India they went on a social program to help Indians, to help them in the villages, to help feed them and look after them, and their professor came up to them and said, "what are you doing? You don't go out helping Indians, because what they are suffering right now is due to their Karma." Or what they brought into this life from what they have done in past lives. Now this is what we are teaching our Western world today.

Marlin:
We're saying that we should go then and learn from these people?

Caryl:
We should learn from these people. That we are going to not die, for instance in the Harry Potter book which I brought up before, and I know you have offered the Harry Potter video, that there, in book #1, the principal of Harry Potter's thousand-year-old occult school says, "Harry, death is the next adventure." Well, that is being taught in Goals 2000 in schools across America, that death is an adventure, death education, that suicide is okay and acceptable because reincarnation is a valid option. Which is completely contradictory to the Bible which says that we are worth something to God and our lives are worth something, and abundant living is worth something. So, children today are faced with the problem of why should I live? What is it worth? What is the point? Suicide is higher now than it has ever been.

Penna:
Caryl, isn't it true that in Hinduism and the New Age there is no such thing as the concept of sin? So, in a sense, you do see that influencing our society. Maybe it is not out there so people are looking at that and saying that's weird, now that it is in so many of these institutions and in the schools. Is that part of the reason now that all of a sudden we can't even call right, right and wrong, wrong?

Caryl:
Exactly, exactly. That is part of the conditioning in transforming. If we are without sin, if all sin, if there is no such thing as evil, no such thing as sin, if we don't have moral absolutes, that is why the schools are teaching values clarification. If there are no things as morals and ethics, then why do we need a savior? Because we are without sin. The wages of sin is death, therefore there is no death, there is just reincarnation, and it all goes hand in hand. So what you do, your morals, don't push your moral standard onto us. In fact, part of school education is to teach the children to separate from the traditional values of their parents, particularly if they are rooted in Biblical concepts.

Marlin:
Let's take some phone calls. 1-800-351-1212. Liz in Missouri. Hi Liz.

Liz:
Hi. I am really in Kansas, but that's alright.

Marlin:
Sure.

Liz:
I don't have a question. I think the lady expresses herself very well. The thing is, I think that she just too easily translates the Bible maybe not correctly, and I think that you can't dismiss Hinduism as evil. It is an ancient religion. You can't……

Penna:
Would you call it Biblical?

Liz:
You can't call it Biblical, no, but Biblical can't be everything. I mean, a human being can't understand everything about every religion. You can't say the Pope is wrong for having ecumenism, you know. I just think that you can't dismiss Hinduism, and you can't translate the Bible for everyone as you are doing.

Caryl:
Liz, I think, I understand what you're saying, and certainly the way that you are talking is an interesting kind of tolerance towards the equality of all religious belief. That is part of a process today where we are being told that all religions are equal. Hinduism is an ancient religion, but remember so is Biblical, so is the Bible. God began it, exactly, in fact a little earlier than Hinduism. Hinduism came out of man's rebellion. There are two world views, there is the Biblical world view that came from the God that created the world, then there is another world view which is man interpreting God's heart or mind.

Liz:
I see. Well, you say morals and ethics. You seem to be saying that Hinduism has not got that, and Muslims do not have ethics and morals.

Caryl:
Actually Liz, I didn't say that. I just said that it was a different morality and a different ethics. I think that is a misunderstanding, because there are morals and ethics, they are just not necessarily Biblical morals and ethics.

Liz:
And you are saying that they are not equal to our Judeo-Christian beliefs?

Caryl:
What religious background are you from?

Liz:
I'm Roman Catholic.

Caryl:
Oh, yes I was born and raised in the Roman Catholic Church too Liz.

Liz:
So was my mother who is now a Methodist.

Marlin:
I think what we are getting down to here is, and this is not a put down Liz, but I have talked about these things for years. We are talking about the whole concept of tolerance, the idea that all religions, all values, all moral systems are equal. Sometimes it goes so far as to say that the only bad people in the world are those people who are the narrow-minded, etcetera, etcetera, who insist that they are right on certain issue. It boils down, very simplified in my mind, I'm a simple guy. You have two concepts of God, you have a God who is a being, a person, in the Judeo-Christian viewpoint, who is beyond us, He is outside of us, so He is the one that created the earth and so on and so forth. The other concept of Hinduism is that there is this great force and, you know, if we do it right we can all become gods. You can argue one side or the other, you have to accept one or the other. I don't think you can mingle these two and be part this way and part the other way Caryl.

Caryl:
Well, the Eastern pagan occultic mystical concept, which is the alternative to God's thought, is the concept that man can be his own guide. Man can make up the rules that he wants. It is a sort of buffet, potpourri of eclectic thought. So you can take a little bit of food from here and a little bit of spiritual food from there, etcetera, etcetera.

Marlin:
I am going to have to take a quick break. Liz, thank you for calling, call back again sometime.

Liz:
Thank you.

Marlin:
Okay bye. Got to take a quick break. Caryl Matrisciana. If I had Liz's address I would send her a copy of this video free, as a friend. You need to see it, but the issues that we are talking about today are real. Get a copy of it. It is yours for a suggested gift of $24.95. To order it you can call 1-800-347-5151. 1-800-347-5151. Ask for the video Gods of the New Age. You can also write to me, the announcer will give you the address. Love to hear from you. We'll be back after this.

Marlin:
Welcome back ladies and gentleman. Penna Dexter with me. Our guest in the studio is Caryl Matrisciana. Jeremiah films over the years has produced some of the best documentaries on a variety of subjects. I have talked to her and her husband Pat over the years and I am just grateful for their work. We are talking today about a video they produced called The Gods of the New Age. It is one of those that I highly recommend, it is must viewing. Caryl Matrisciana is a fifth generation English family, born in England, English colonial, born in India, fifth generation English colonials. With her own background in drugs and Eastern mysticism she has the credentials to investigate the roots, the progress, the future of the New Age phenomenon and what it's doing today. So, when you are talking about these issues, Caryl is probably one of the most knowledgeable people on these issues. I don't know Penna, I guess it is just the difference between men and women, even controversial callers; it's that nice English way of sidestepping and being kind. I am learning from you ladies, not much, but I am.

Penna:
Well you know she does have a very nice, sweet, soft way of doing things, but she cuts right to the heart of the issue in everything she talks about, and especially with the New Age. There are very few out there who understand the roots, the history, and then what it is doing to our society, to Christians, and how it is influencing even the church. Caryl and Pat Matrisciana have influenced and changed hearts and minds for decades. I think the area of the New Age and this kind of spirituality is one where people in the church even have been deceived.

Marlin:
One of the things that we talked about a little bit in the last hour, and I want to caution, warn, enlighten, encourage, especially the young people less than 40 years old, 30 years old and particularly younger, that have been brought up on values clarification, been brought up on non-judgementalism, having adopted even in their Christianity, a value system of moral relativism The surveys show that even evangelical Christians do not believe in moral absolutes. A large percentage of us, especially the young, that we can't say the Ten Commandments are absolutely right, that Jesus Christ is absolutely the Savior of the world, because that is judgmental and so on. So, in their moral relativistic view they are unable to say something is right and something is wrong. Nowadays, I have talked about this for 25 years I guess, but in the last few years I'm not challenged on the authenticity of what I have been saying, I am challenged on my right to even say it.

Penna:
Right.

Marlin:
I think that is a very dangerous thing.

Penna:
Well you know we got that from our last caller, Liz. Really it saddens my heart to hear something like that. To hear someone who says I am raised in the Catholic Church, and yet I don't have the ability to say that my religion is better than Hinduism, or that my beliefs are right and those beliefs are wrong. That kind of attitude has permeated the church and the society, and that is where we are, and that is why we have to get the truth out.

Marlin:
Indeed.

Caryl:
Well, I would go one step further than that, Pena, and say that if we listen to say my opinion versus your opinion versus Marlin's, then we are all on the same ground. I think what we have got to do is say what is God's opinion, and you see that can't be challenged, unless you say that the Bible isn't a relative book. That is what is being taught today, that the Bible isn't relative, the Bible isn't truth.

Marlin:
So you take society, you take the church, the movie industry, whatever, and you reach into society and you convince them that you can't be judgmental, you have taken away the Christian's ability to say that Jesus is the savior of the world and you need to be saved, when the person says well that is your view and you don't have a right to impose it.

Caryl:
Exactly. What you have done is you have taken away God, who says that God is truth, because Jesus says "I am the way, the truth, and the life." So if Jesus is truth, that is our standard. Now the world is saying, no, Jesus isn't truth. So we are saying God isn't truth. So, it is not my opinion versus another human being's opinion. It is actually human beings questioning and challenging God.

Marlin:
Let's take some calls. 1800-351-1212. Jennifer is in Dallas, Texas. Hello Jennifer.

Jennifer:
Hi, I am calling today because I appreciate the relevancy of your show. I was just looking for a way to witness to my friend who is very involved in the New Age Movement through the Unity Church and studying Reiki and some other things. I am trying to witness to her and sometimes my basic is to go back to who Christ is, because either He is who He said He was or He isn't. He said He was God and they hated Him for it then, and today we still take persecution for that. I won't back down on that stand. I wondered if you had any other resources, aside from the video, that I could pick up to minister the life of Christ to these people who I know?

Caryl:
Jennifer I would ask you to consider getting this video from Marlin, because actually what it is, is probably about 20 years of research, incredible visuals going to India and all sorts of other places in Europe, England, Norway, Denmark, all sorts of places. Actually interviewing men who say that they are higher than God. In fact, one of the Hindus said, "The guru is greater than God." Here you have got all the man-made opinions coming into a 103 minute video which so concisely and so incredibly explains everything that you would be saying. I think the point is that pictures are better than words sometimes. A thousand visual images today work so much better than argumentation or dialogue. This is a really, really incredible film to give to your friend. I have heard so many come back with reports of how this film changed their lives. I would encourage you to hang in on the truth. You are coming from the concept of Christ is the truth, but this is a thinking that is becoming more and more minimized. If we can say that Christ is just another guru or another good man or another good teacher, and the Bible is just another Koran or Bhagavad Gita, then that is the way of discrediting our Christian witness. But, this film is good, it takes you around the world and I think it is a great tool.

Marlin:
Thanks Jennifer.

Jennifer:
Thank you.

Marlin:
You know if the early Christians had just gone along with that bit back during the Roman Empire, and said that Jesus is God, but so is Caesar, they would have been thrown to the lions. But they kept saying, "Jesus is Lord."

Caryl:
And that was a group of people that dared to stand against the culture, because the culture at that time was very, very similar to our culture today, that embraces all religions as one. In fact, in Acts 17 when Paul walked along Mars Hill he saw all the gods being offered there, and even to the Unknown God, so we are like the Roman culture today.

Marlin:
That's right. Let me take a break. The phone number for your questions is 1-800-351-1212. The guest is Caryl Matrisciana. We'll be right back.

Marlin:
Alright we're back, 1-800-351-1212. Let's take some calls. Cheryl is in Maine. Hi Cheryl.

Cheryl:
Hi, how are you?

Marlin:
Very well, how are you?
.
Cheryl:
Good. What I wanted to say to Caryl was that I was involved in the occult for 25 years and the influence today is insidious. It is very apropos to the ends times and seducing spirits. But, I didn't get out of bondage until I met someone that showed me how to get the baptism of the Holy Spirit. I find that a lot of churches are dead to this. Unless someone feels the regenerative power of the Holy Spirit of Christ, then the Bible is dead and Christ is dead, and Satan's vortex of energy is very much alive and people are flocking. They need something to make them feel alive. Now Satan wants Christ's life to feel dead, and right now he is winning, as far as I'm concerned, in a lot of ways. But my question is, is Caryl going to the churches with this? Is she bringing it to the forefront in the minds of the church, where they need to offer more on the regenerative powers of the Holy Spirit versus the seducing spirits of Satan, so people can know the difference and feel the power in the difference of those spirits?

Marlin:
Good question, thanks Cheryl.

Caryl:
Cheryl, I hope that is what we are doing. That is why my husband and I make the videos that we make. We rely very, very heavily on people like yourself. By the way, I commend you on your powerful words, they are very important words. It is only the Holy Spirit that is going to be able to battle the spirits of this present age of darkness. My husband and I believe that we make weapons for spiritual warfare. That is what our videos are, and we need to put them into the hands of soldiers, foot soldiers like yourself, and all others. Yes, we do market this to the church and people like Marlin Maddoux who get this out on the radio. We need all of you to be able to go into your community with the video, to your teachers, to your schools, to your corporations, and slowly talk one-on-one to people, then people like you to be able to tell them about the power of the Holy Spirit and a new life in Christ.

Penna:
I might add, that is why Marlin chooses the materials that he does choose to offer here on Point of View because we do believe they are tools. We believe that people that are listening will be able to then spread whatever knowledge that is to those in their sphere of influence. Let's go back to the phones and talk to Dave in the state of California. Hi Dave.

Dave:
Hi, I just wanted to kind of weigh into the conversation a little bit. I have kind of a problem with some of this, in that Christianity is only clearly superior, I think, because it says it is. Only 30 percent of the people on the planet are Christian, and Christianity touts to dismiss the others out of hand simply because of this pride that it is superior. I think that puts Christianity on a lesser footing, at least politically, because too often I think Christianity looks down its nose on other people simply because it is decided that it is better.

Caryl:
Well Dave, yes there is a very small percentage of Christians in the world, and a very small percentage of man will turn to the Bible and accept what God has to say. There was a very small group of people called Jews who God chose to be His remnant of people to change the world through Jesus Christ. This isn't a popular message. The gospel of God certainly isn't popular. It is much more popular to feel that human beings are in control and able to manipulate their own circumstances through yoga or human potential or whatever it is that they want to believe in. So, you're right in a sense.

Dave:
It just seems a lot of the time that people open their Bibles and decide that this is it.

Penna:
They read their Bible and believe their Bible.

Caryl:

The Bible isn't man written, in a sense. It has been inspired by the words of God. It is God speaking to man through his Holy Spirit. So, one has got to first of all go to the intimacy of the author of the Bible and see him as a person that created you, Dave, and loves you and cares for you and wants you to go along the right path.

Marlin:
Thank you Dave. You know, let's face it, we are in the age, the age of tolerance, the age of non-judgmentalism Now let's take this a little bit further. We are still in the aftershock of September 11th, 2001, when the terrorists struck the World Trade Center, The Pentagon, and so on, and all across America on the campuses particularly, there were students who simply could not look and say that the terrorists that drove the airplanes into the towers were wrong. That we have to look back at their life circumstances and find out what made them do what they did. There was a girl named Allison Hornstein that wrote an article in I think the Wall Street Journal, or one of those, The Washington Post, Time, something. But, said that "On our campus we considered both sides of it, and we looked at it, and we were not able to say that the actions of the terrorists, in fact, were wrong." Also one of the big things in the colleges today is that American system of government and society cannot say that it is better than any other. Penna you know, being in the textbook battle for years, one of the things that has been fought in the textbooks is to expunge anything in the textbook that even hints that America might be superior in its values, in its system, in its democracy, and so on, than any other country. Now, if you have a generation that is raised up on that, and you come along and say that Jesus Christ is the only savior, there is only one way to God, that person is going to be just like the caller that said, "Who are you to say that Christianity is better than anything?"

Penna:
We are really building a mindset that says that there are no absolutes in society. There is nothing right, there is nothing wrong, there is nothing good, there is nothing bad. Those words are going to lose their relevance.

Marlin:
But you know something Caryl, talking about Eastern mysticism and so on, in it the teaching of Karma, reincarnation, and so on. Somewhere along the line you have to make up your mind which one is right. I mean, let's face it, your eternal destination depends upon that. So, sooner or later you have to make up your own mind. Let me go back to Gods of the New Age, the video, and there is a cut here that I want you to hear.

(Playing video)

Marlin:
Wow. Ladies and gentleman at least you can give us credit for having the courage for saying things that are absolutely not politically correct today. There is only one Savior and that is Jesus Christ. It is not Mahatma Ghandhi, it's not John Lennon, it is not Buddha, it's not anything or anybody else, there is only one Savior and that is Jesus Christ. That makes me narrow-minded and a bigot, and I wear that as a badge of honor. Get a copy of the video, it is called Gods of the New Age. The phone number to order it is 1-800-347-5151. Suggested gift of $24.95. Ask for the video Gods of the New Age. We'll be back with your phone calls right after this.

Marlin:
Welcome back ladies and gentleman. I have got the greatest job on the face of the earth. I get to sit at a table and talk to some of the most charming, beautiful, intelligent, and articulate people on the earth. I am surrounded by beauty today. Yeah Ron, that includes you too. Penna Dexter and Caryl Matrisciana. Caryl Matrisciana for years producing films with Jeremiah Films. As I mentioned earlier, I don't know how many years, 20 something years ago I started talking about The New Age Movement with an attorney, a lady attorney by the name of Constance Cumby. She wrote a book called Hidden Dangers of the Rainbow. I suppose it was one of the first nationwide exposes and warnings of what the New Age Movement was, because 20 something years later I still talk to people and they say, Marlin I remember those interviews that you had with Constance Cumby. Then sometime in the mid 80's I got hold of a series of tapes that was put together by Caryl Matrisciana on the Pagan Invasion. It filled in so many of the blanks about what the New Age Movement is. As I said, I like to simplify things as much as I possibly can, and looking at Caryl's material and looking at this video that we are talking about today, you just simply have to go back and tie it into the Hindu religion. You know if you go back to the book of Genesis when the serpent, Satan, came to Eve, what was the thing that he was waving in front of her? You shall be as gods.

Caryl:
And you won't die.

Marlin:
And you won't die. Two things, you shall be as gods and you won't die. So, Hinduism, Caryl Matrisciana, basically offers the same thing.

Caryl:
Same thing. Reincarnation says that you will not die and that your body, even though your body dies, your soul just continues and you come in in a more advanced, or less advanced state. It is the most horrible concept. To the Hindu, they believe this to be imprisonment. They are trying to get out of reincarnation.

Marlin:
They don't like reincarnation.

Caryl:
They don't like it one bit, that is why they practice yoga, so that they can become more enlightened in a higher state of consciousness, so that they will not return the hundreds of lives that possibly they will do. So they want to try and get out of this cycle of hopelessness, of death and life, death and life, death and life.

Marlin:
What is nirvana?

Caryl:
Less consciousness. A state, a hypnotic state. In yoga, if you could just keep on focusing inward, inwardly, and try and get that serpent power, that inward flame, that flicker, that human potential, to come higher and higher and higher to this third eye, this little space in the middle of the forehead, you can then become enlightened to a concept of your own god potential. Your own power to be able to overcome circumstances.

Marlin:
Now I have read, in fact I have interviewed, I can't remember who he was, but he was a disciple of Sai Baba.

Caryl:
Sai Baba - Tal Brooke from Spiritual Counterfeit Project.

Marlin:
But he talks about the meditation to the point that they have these out of body experiences. They see lights, you know, it's not just something strictly in the imagination.

Caryl:
No it isn't. Well, of course, the confusion here is that what happens is that once you get your body into neutral, then you're making it available to powers and principalities to take you wherever they want to take you, or to deceive you. The father of lies is the originator or the deceiver, the liar, the one that confuses. So, whether they are real experiences or not, you know, there is debate about that, but the fact is that the devotee, the disciple truly believes that they are being astrally projected. Here you have this concept of being taken out of your body. Now, remember earlier on in the show I mentioned that everything God does is counterfeited by Satan. We know in Biblical times when God himself took certain people out of the body, as in Paul and John, to let him see down for the book of Revelation, to be able to look into the future. So this is when God takes an individual to a place that will encourage the church, or encourage faith in God. Occultic manipulation, sorcery, divination of the same experience is when you put your mind in neutral, become self-hypnotized; allow powers and principalities to come in to deceive you into delusion and what is happening. This concept which used to be an adult dangerous teaching for adult disciples in advanced stages of yoga, is now being taught to children in schools in America through Harry Potter, who goes in astral projective phases, who goes into astral projection, blanking out his mind to get into a delusionary place….

Marlin:
To a generation that is being prepared.

Caryl:
An entire generation. When you think of little young Harry Potter who has got the mark in the middle of his forehead…..

Marlin:
So he has one?

Caryl:
He has a mark. He was given a mark as a child.

Marlin:
I haven't read the books or seen the movie, so I don't know.

Caryl:
So here are hundreds and thousands of children putting that mark on their head to show that they are in allegiance to their hero Harry Potter. They are already being conditioned.

Penna:
Marlin you were going through the list of people who have helped Christians over the years understand the New Age. One of those people was actually in the video and we heard her speak. This was Johanna Michaelsen. I know that her writing influenced me as I had read her book. I think it is called Like Lambs to the Slaughter. I had small children at that time and you could see how the atmosphere in the schools was being prepared for these children to transform their minds. Nobody would admit that you were trying to make little New Agers out of them. What you were trying to do was make them behave, or make them do well in school.

Marlin:
That's all the teacher wants is to get the kids quiet.

Penna:
Right. So this is a technique that you use, but it goes so much deeper. You end up, sometimes, hypnotizing these kids, opening them up to spirits and to all kinds of psychological harm. That scared me. It really scared me. I think when you think of something that is actually going to effect you children and the children in the society, you start to worry about it.

Marlin:
Let's take some calls. 1-800-351-1212. Pam has been holding on awhile. Pam, thank you for holding on.

Pam:
No problem. Marlin, thank you so much too for what you do. As one in the body of Jesus Christ I am so thankful that we have a way of finding out what the truth is. I can't uphold you enough and say enough about what you and Point of View does.

Marlin:
You're very kind. Thank you.

Pam:
Thank you. Caryl I have a question. So many of my questions have been answered just while listening to you here. You had just spoken about when Paul was taken away in the Spirit. I have read different books by such as John G. Lake, Maria Woodworth-Etter, I believe her name was. Where these people had been taken away in the Spirit, and in the Bible it talks about in the end times, you know, that God will pour out His Spirit upon all flesh.

Marlin:
Okay, I'm running a little short, give me a question real quick.

Pam:
Okay, the question that I have is where do you take it to as far as one being in such deep meditation to the point of where you have such an overwhelming feeling of the Spirit of God in pondering and thinking about Him, what is the fine line?

Marlin:
You know, you said something about, and thank you Pam, the whole concept of a Christian meditation is meditating on God, thinking of God. The Hindu, New Age, is to empty your mind, like you said the room, and anybody can come in.

Caryl:
And I think the difference here is that meditation, Biblical meditation, is meditation on the Law of God, not on my own feeling and my experiences, and that I may be taken to another place. I think we have got to focus in on the Word, and the Word will be witnessed by the Bible itself. I think any type of mystical meditation where you are in a feeling outside of Biblical concepts is very dangerous.

Marlin:
I would agree.

Caryl:
I would stay very clear of that.

Marlin:
In South Carolina, Kevin you're on the air.

Kevin:
Alright, good afternoon. I wanted to call because, I listened to the first few callers and they were basically saying there was no moral absolutes, or there are no spiritual absolutes. One thing in hearing them and just listening, because I do work in a position of leadership in my church. In hearing them, they are not doing anything more but validating what the Bible says. I just wanted to shed some light, if I could really quickly, everybody…….

Marlin:
I'll tell you what, let me take a quick break and I'll come back to you Kevin.

Kevin:
Oh great.

Marlin:
Okay? 1-800-351-1212 is the call-in line. Caryl Matrisciana with us talking about the New Age Movement. 1-800-351-1212. We'll be back after this.

Marlin:
Hey we're back. 1-800-351-1212. If you just joined us you have just missed an hour and forty five minutes of some of the best radio programming you will ever hear. Please don't do this again. Be here tomorrow 1:00 central, 2:00 East, 11:00 Pacific, don't miss it. 1-800-351-1212. Kevin in South Carolina had a word of wisdom for us. Kevin, go right ahead.

Kevin:
Yes, I was saying that any of us, or any of them, or anyone who blurs the lines of the spiritual absolute of the Bible, in just hearing some of your caller, what they are doing is validating what the Bible says. Because when we read the Bible we have always speculated, I believe speculated as Christians about what the lukewarm is that is being spoken about in the book of Revelation. What is those who are lukewarm who will be spewed out of the mouth of God? I truly believe that us, as Christians, who accept other religions as being equal to ours, though we say that we ascribe to the Christian religion, then we think about what is the apostasy. The apostasy, I believe, is here with what we have been saying, and other ministers, and other programs have said about the New Age Movement, is falling away, falling into those practices, saying that all religions are on equal footing. The only thing that I can think of when Miss Matrisciana was talking about the enlightenment and the serpent, it so ties directly into what the Bible says about Satan was Lucifer, the light bearer, that fell to the earth, who tried to enlighten man, which is what he tried to do in the Garden of Eden when he basically tricked Adam and Eve into taking the fruit of the knowledge of good and evil. Because if they had not partaken that fruit of the knowledge of good and evil, we would never have the knowledge of good and evil because there was no evil, so there would have never been good. We would have just been walking in the presence of God.

Marlin:
Alright Kevin, I think you did that very well. Thank you very much. Caryl Matrisciana, you know, Kevin and some of the others were kind of getting a glimpse of the way so many are going today, neutralized for so many years in the public schools, multiculturalism, tolerance of all things, no belief is better, no country is better. I go back, you know, right after September 11th, Franklin Graham, and we had him on the program right after that, but Franklin Graham had the audacity to say that while he respected other religions, as a Christian he could recognize only one God and Savior, Jesus Christ. Basically saying that the simple message that Jesus Christ is the Savior of the World; he can't accept Mohammad, Allah, or any other God. The media and everybody tore him apart because he was politically incorrect, he was judgmental, and so on. But I admired him for it.

Caryl:
Well the Bible says that there is going to be in a very short time a one-world leader who is going to come down and rule the earth for a thousand years. That is going to be Jesus Christ himself. Then all of these people that wonder who is Jesus and what are His values can deal with that. But, the issue at the moment is why would somebody not take the risk of believing that the Bible is the Word of God, that God is truth Himself, that God is love? Why not take that risk and accept that for the few remaining years, and then be able to stand at the feet of somebody that is truth and love, and ask Him the question? Rather than say at the moment, I don't believe in all of this, I am not going to take this in, then for a million years, for eternity, be an outcast, be a spiritual outcast.

Penna:
You know, we talk about what is going to happen in the future. We also know that there is going to be a world leader, and that there is going to be a world religion. I see this New Age Movement and this whole trend toward not being able to say my religion is right and your religion is wrong, leading toward us, as a world, being able to accept that world leader and that world religion. Because we really aren't going to be grounded in our faith, no matter what religion it is.

Caryl:
Well there was an example two thousand years ago when the religious leaders of their time didn't know about Jesus Christ appearing as the Son of God. They didn't know they were misled, because they were expecting Jesus to come as the political head of the environment for a thousand years. They were misled and didn't know. The same thing is going to happen today, that people are going to be misled by, as you mentioned, a religious political leader that is going to come down and say he is the Christ and lead for a thousand years. But he is not going to have in his hands the wounds, the nails of the cross. He won't be able to be decided on and he will deceive millions. So I think with the New Age and with Kevin letting us know that there is an apostasy going on, there is a falling away, there is, all of this is part of the concept, the new training for the global citizen. I think people don't understand that the children today have to be moved away from their familiar traditional values in order to be able to get into this new global paradigm that will prepare them for the ultimate deception. We as Christian parents have got an opportunity to lead our children. We need to keep the church and people aware of traditional Biblical principals.

Marlin:
Connie is in Pennsylvania. Hi Connie.

Connie:
Hi. God bless you. Thanks for taking my call. I say amen to everything you guys are talking about today. You, Caryl, God bless you and your husband for coming out with this video, but I said, "Lord, I don't think we'll every see her on the Oprah Show." I hope so. I have a fantastic book we'll call "Oprah the Evangelist." You know, she is promoting everything we're talking about today.

Marlin:
That's right, she is promoting this whole New Age…..

Caryl:
That's why she is so popular.

Marlin:
Yep.

Caryl:
Right?

Marlin:
That's right. Are you booked for the Oprah Show anytime soon Caryl?

Caryl:
I'm not popular.

Connie:
My whole family are New Agers, they are religious, they're Catholic. The comment I want to make is that I hope you guys are aware, I'm sure you are, that the Pope is also embracing a lot of Eastern religion. I have friends who are Catholic, and they think it is okay to go into the mosques.

Marlin:
You know, I have, in study of this, I not only know, I'm not sure if I know personally Catholic priests that are in the New Age Movement, but I know of Catholic priests, a large number of Catholic nuns. But by the same token I know Methodists and Presbyterians, and Lutherans, and all of them that are into the New Age Movement, that hold these type of meetings in the church, the yoga, the meditation, and the whole thing.

Caryl:
Well, look at the concept of God being made male and female. Look at the whole movement, the feminine movement in the church, that femaleness is part of God's concept, we'd then say "Our father/mother who art in heaven and earth."

Marlin:
Okay thanks Connie.

Connie:
Okay, God bless you.

Marlin:
Okay, bye. Caryl, got about a minute and a half left here. You have gotten a lot of good feedback from this video, it has really been effective.

Caryl:
It has been so effective, and I would encourage your listeners to take Gods of the New Age video and to use it as a tool. To put it into the hands of New Agers or Wiccans that they know, or people in their family who are unclear about the moral relativism that we live in today. It is a very, very powerful video with footage from all over the world. We have interviewed heads of the United Nations telling us what the United Nations' goal is about the global indoctrination of the global village child or person, if you will. What they want the world to become. It is a very, very powerful and exciting video.

Marlin:
It's a little scary, isn't it Penna?

Penna:
It is scary. I think that every Christian should really watch this video, because this is permeating our society. It is influencing the direction that we are going. We need to understand it, and a picture is worth a thousand words, so you really get it in the video.

Marlin:
The title of the video is Gods of the New Age. Rabi Maharaj who wrote the book The Death of a Guru. I think we've had him on.

Penna:
We may have.

Marlin:
I think we have. He said that it is the most powerful Christian documentary he has ever seen. Hal Lindsey says that he believes that this is the most important Christian film of the decade. Those are strong endorsements. Get a copy of it by calling 1-800-347-5151, or write to me and enclose a gift of $24.95 and ask for the video Gods of the New Age. Once again, the phone number to order is 1-800-347-5151. Thanks for listening and thanks to all of the callers. We'll see you tomorrow. So long everybody.